An interview with Len Webb

Len Webb's support of and involvement in the Terania protest was of great importance. A respected academic and scientist, Len's comments are still of vital relevance today. The following interview was conducted for the "Message of Terania" magazine.

The Unsung Prophet

Dr. Len Webb is the CSIRO's outspoken senior rainforest scientist. His involvement in the Terania Creek effort started with his first study in the area 27 years ago.
His qualifications and experience rank him as the most expert voice in his field. But he says the unconsciousness of Australia is such that he is listened to more attentively and more often outside his own country. This attitude has produced a love/hate relationship between the intense, greying man and his country. This interview with Dr. Webb was recorded at Terania Creek.

Question: Dr. Webb, you're the most qualified advisor on rainforests in Australia, yet in the past governments have ignored your most urgent advice. What does this do to you?

Dr. Webb: I was a member of the Committee of Inquiry into the National Estate. We put out a report in 1974 and we really sweated blood over it. It took us a couple ot years to prepare and there were hundreds of submissions from a very wide cross-section of the community. But nobody took any notice of us. It 's a bit like being a prophet unsung in his own country. I've just come back trom two months in South-East Asia and I go there quite a bit. I'm better known and more attentively listened to there and in other countries than I am inside Australia. But I certainly don't give up and I think that Terania Creek is the kind of issue that I feel I must identify with as a professional ecologist. Part of my doctorate of philosophy work back in 1952 began here in Whian Whian State Forest. Isn't it ironic that I'm back here 27 years later, for God's sake, and I'm trying to preserve the remaining fragments of that forest.

Question: If you were drawing up a ladder of world conservation policies, where would Australia rate?

Dr. Webb: Before tne early 1960's, Australia distinguished herself among all nations by knocking hell out of the place so rapidly. Within less than two centuries, we have transformed the landscape, often without much success and very often causing disasters such as erosion, weed invasion, and the spread of pests. One must be careful that one does not totally denigrate the clearing of trees, but there was something about the Australian pioneer which I find very hard to believe and understand. It is this feeling of not belonging. It's the old bonanza cult of getting in for your cut and going back to the shores of Sydney Harbour or in those days, England. These days, Australia is just slowly starting to realise we belong to the South-East Asia region, which is bloody remarkable . We're just slowly starting to believe. Australia is still a middle class phenomonen. Take this whole, ugly polarisation that is going on in Lismore between the conservationists and the loggers. The trade unions, the working people should have been more in this sort ot thing. I'm sorry to say that Australia is about middle place on a world scale. And that's middle class - an elitism I don't like.

Question: Can you see Australia effecting a change in its attitude to its forests?

Dr. Webb: I think a change in attitude is slowly creeping northwards within Australia. I come from Queensland and I know it will take a long time to penetrate to Cape York Peninsular and it's going to take even longer to get into the Northern Territory and even longer to get into the NorthWest of Australia. But there have been lots of advances in Victoria, I think New South Wales is making some highly significant advances and Queensland is beginning. I'm afraid there must be some mathematical law about the fact that the further you go from the capital city, the worse the attitudes are. I'm afraid this isn't confined to conservation The attitudes also apply to the original inhabitants of Australia, the Aborigines. We should never forget that.

Question: What are the new sets of values that you see coming?

Dr. Webb: We have to look at forests as part of the landscape, they are part of ecological systems. I think it is very important to realise that forests aren't just vertical logs and we have to get past the birds and the bees. We are getting into a much deeper understanding of the forests now. There are the obvious ones of catchment protection, wildlife habitat, the photo chemicals, the potential therapeutic aspects, hiological control, gene pools, there's a whole variety of things. Some of us are starting to understand that forests are part of our cultural heritage. It's part of our self identity emerging. It's just not values of watershed protection or even biological control. Forests are part of us, and I think Burnam Burnam puts it very well. It is a feeling ot communion and intimacy with the bush.